tracking vibrations

[callaway19662003]

It may just be a simple fix of tightening the 2 screws that hold the assembly to the base.
I had one a while back where the screws that hold the motor on the base were loose as some one didnt tighten them up.
Its a very simple thing to check and it beats sending scopes back and forth.

Mark

If someone was to just inspect this would it void the warranty? I took it out and tested it last night. There were areas where the vibration was very bad and others where it never happend at all. The worst places I found was between 10 and 40 degrees above the horizon.

Brad

[callaway19662003]

Opinion follows:
Although four to six reports is still possibly "anecdotal"
versus "statistical", there appears to be a problem with
new LX90's.   What i'd recommend (for the people unwilling
to open the fork and attempt worm-mesh adjustments) would be
to get on the phone with Meade and -escalate- it to -Meade-
paying the freight both ways to fix the sick-from-new scope.
New buyers should -not- be faced with an immediate $100 to
$200 (for LX90) shipping impact when -multiple- new scopes
demonstrate the same problems.

Meade should proactively just -offer- free inbound shipping
for new LX90's.  They may have had (or, dread, still have) a
production problem which they can (did?) resolve, but they'd
do a -lot- towards regaining customer loyalty if they 'fessed
up to it and "made it good".

In both your (telescope.com) and Mike Weasner's (OPT) case, the dealer
has been willing to eat the expense of shipping a 2nd try.
The dealers are going to stop doing that when they find
-all- (or a significantly large percentage) of the product
requiring replacement, with those replacements also being faulty.

For those folks willing to -work- on their scopes, inspecting
the worm area for alignment (worm shaft centered and parallel
to tangent of driven gear) and mesh (not too tight!) might
actually -fix- the problem.  This seems to be showing up
in new LXD75's (shims missing, too tight).

Yeah, you shouldn't have to -do- that, but if you'd prefer
to have a functioning scope than spend time packing and shipping
to Meade, it's the approach i'd take.  (it has the down-side of
Meade not seeing -all- of the scopes with the problem, so the
corporate mind thinking "it's not -that- bad", but that's the
coin-flip one has to accept.. although i suppose you could send
them a bill for your time)

good luck
--dick

I have spoke with Meade again and they said that they will pay for the shipping both ways and fix this. Mark and Dick what is your opinion on that? I don't know Meade( and their telescopes) like you guys do. Is this something that Meade will this or will they just inspect...tighten some stuff up and ship it back? And if they fix it...will it just happen again and constantly need repairs over the years? Just for visual viewing...this telescope is awesome. Its accuarate and you can see alot in night. Thanks for your opinions.

Brad

[Mark Sibole]

That is up to you.
Myself being impatient id remoce the bottom cover and see if I notice anything bad.
But if you are un comfortable doing this send it to them and ask them because this is your seconf scope with this problem please try to get it fixed and back to you asap.


Regards

Mark

[autostaretx]

> I have spoke with Meade again and they said that they will pay for the shipping
> both ways and fix this.

Good.  That's the Meade i like to hear about (yes, it would be better if it wasn't -needed-, but at least they're awake).

> Mark and Dick what is your opinion on that? I don't know Meade( and their telescopes) like you guys do.
> Is this something that Meade will this or will they just inspect...tighten some stuff up and ship it back?

Since we don't -know- what the root problem really is, "just inspect(ing) and tightening" could well
be all it needs.  (altho i'd say "align and loosen").  But we don't know.  In the old LX200gps case, it
required an electronics board-swap (which also required lots of "tightening", since the board was
-under- all of the motor and gearing).

> And if they fix it...will it just happen again and constantly need repairs over the years?

Historically, the LX90 has been perhaps the "sweetest" scope in Meade's line.  This vibration caught all of us completely out of the blue.  Even if it's just an "inspect and tighten", that really should be a permanent fix.  The LX90 has over a 7 year history, and this vibration did not appear (that i can recall) until just recently.  There's always the chance that Meade has made a subtle internal design change which is contributing to it, but that's what sending it back to Meade helps them discover and correct at the source.

So my -guess- is that sending it back -should- truly fix it.  If it is just an "inspect and tighten", then it is sometime a mechanically handy person might self-repair.  But if it's not that simple then you'll still be sending it back (or launching on a machining project).   In the distant past, Meade Customer Service would sometimes "walk" folks through "open and fix" procedures.  But if they don't -know- what's wrong that's almost impossible to do.

To help them truly find and fix it, be sure to include a sheet -clearly- describing the problem, and how to duplicate it (llike: "set it for 9pm 25 may 2008, Seattle Washington, GoTo Saturn, listen for thumping.  That's it").  Have that as a loose sheet -and- a sheet taped on the telescope barrel itself.

> Just for visual viewing...this telescope is awesome. Its accuarate and you can see alot in night.

That it is.

good luck
--dick

[Toxo]

Brad,

You are NOT alone.  I just bought an 8" LX90 GPS ACF yesterday, assembled it today, and I too am getting a rhythmic vibration, clearly comming from the DEC drive (I can hear it AND feel it) in the fork.  Happens every 10-20 seconds or so. And I can see it through the lens.

My dealer, Skies Unlimited here in PA, so far has been GREAT about taking care of problems.  Of course they will hear from me tomorrow, but also Meade will need to know...I described the problem to them just now when I registered the problem on line.  We'll see just how responsive a company they are.

I promise to keep you and all on the 4M Forum posted on this issue.

Toxo

[Toxo]

Brad, and all 4M community menbers,

Just a quick update.  I took the 8"LX90 gps/acf back to my dealer, Skies Unlimited.  They took the return "no questions aksed,"  said it was going back to the factory at Meade's expense, and even offered me the option of getting the repaired unit back or getting a different LX90 as they did not have one in stock to swap out (but they would have!!)

I think it is important for others to know that there still is a commitment to quality and customer satisfaction out there.  Three cheers for Meade and four cheers for Skies Unlimited for promptly doing the right thing.  Bob and Ted - you guys ROCK!!

Toxo

[callaway19662003]

Hi Toxo,

It doesnt suprise me that other people have received bad scopes. Telescopes.com sent me 3 LX90's and they were all bad. I am not as happy as you are with Meade. They said that I could send it back to them and they could fix it and it would be covered under the warranty. I thought about it but just couldnt bring myself to do it. Meade has sent all of these broken scopes out and we all payed for them....and now they want us to send them back for repairs. No way. I was fearing that if I did send it to them...they would return it back with a note saying that they couldnt find anything wrong with it. It makes me wonder how this issue could not of been found during their quality control checks. Well after the 2nd bad one I told the guy at Meade I wanted them to send me a tested and working scope overnight and I would return the bad back to them. He said they couldnt do that. So...I told him that they would be losing a customer. And after the 3rd I ordered a Celestron and so far I am perfectly happy with it and there have not been any issues.

Thanks,

Brad

   

[callaway19662003]

I have been anxiously waiting on Mike Weasners repair. He is on his 3rd LX90 and what happened to him on this last one is just what I was worried would happen to me. It was sent to Meade to be repaired and was returned back with the same problem.

http://www.weasner.com/lx90/strike_3.html


Brad

[Toxo]

Brad, and all 4M community members,

Another update on the LX90 situation.  As promised, my dealer called me last week and told me to come to the shop as they had 2 new LX90 scopes just arrived from Meade, and they would let me have my pick.  I said "Great!" and made it up there on Wednesday.  I was presented a new scope, was walking to the door, and thought about what happened to others.  So Bob, the owner of my dealer Skies Unlimited,  and I took out the scope and assembled it in the shop.  Fired it up.  And sure enough, it was another bad one.  Could hear AND feel the vibrations in the fork containing the DEC drive.  So we put the scope back in the box, and we got the other one out.  Sure enough - ANOTHER BAD ONE!!

So we immediately packed up the bad scopes for shipment back to Meade.  And sure enough, I got an e-mail from my dealer saying that the problem has finally gotten up to the top in the Meade organization and that the senior brass is now going down to their plant in Mexico to locate the problem and adjust their QA procedures.  To this end Meade has stopped shipping all LX90 telescopes until they get it right.  They will be hand testing telescopes prior to shipment until they get to the root of the vibrations.

So the sad news is that  Meade has finally aknowledged that one of their best, popular and most reliable telescopes has a manufacturing problem.  The GOOD news is that they are finally taking it seriously and giving it the due attention it deserves.  I for one want to see Meade thrive and flourish, as I love their optics and think this company has done great things in bringing  advanced gear to the Astro publick at a reasonable price. I honestly believe that the reputation and future of the Meade company will depend on how they deal with this situation in the Mexico production facility, and shudder to think of what will happen to them and their place in the astronomy market if they don't do right by their customers.

Will update this as it develops.  My dealer also says that so far they have hand tuned 40 LX90 telescopes that they will be sending out over the next two weeks.  When I get mine I will post the news....Pray for Meade!!

Toxo

[welfordj]

I own a 10 inch LX-90 that I bought in NOV 07, and it has the vibration problem in BOTH drives.  I found your comments about Meade's efforts to fix this problem very interesting, and was wondering if you've received any further updates about this from your dealer.  I haven't contacted my dealer about this yet, but I think I will to see what they know.  I totally agree with your comments that Meade needs to address this problem.  It is a real nuisance when viewing, and you can forget about astrophotography.  Overall the LX-90 is a good scope with great optics.  The GOTO is very accurate, and I have seen some very dim objects with average viewing conditions and much less that perfect collimation.  I would hate to send it back to the factory if Meade plans to come up with a simple fix, such as through an AutoStar update (maybe version 4.4eA will accomplish this?).  After reading Dr. Clay's comments in the Yahoo LX-90 forum, I suspect that's not going to be enough.  I think Dr. Clay correctly identified the problem when he said in the Yahoo forum, "I am still not convinced this is a software issue; I believe that there is a mismatched motor/encoder problem on some telescopes, likely from a change in the BOM that led to an ineffective or defective part."  It's possible that the original motor was no longer available and Meade was forced to use a different motor, or maybe they were just trying to save a few dollars on a cheaper part.  I'm no electronics engineer, but I would think that the firmware in the programmable microcontrollers on the PCBs in both drives was written to interact with a specific motor/encoder.  Obviously there is a feedback loop between the motor/encoder and the microcontrollers, and some problem there is the source of the vibration.  I wouldn't think an adjustment to the firmware in the handbox would be able to solve the problem completely.  Anyway, the discussion of this problem on the Yahoo forum ended three weeks ago with no resolution, and I was just wondering if anyone out there has some good news from Meade for those who are experiencing this problem.  My scope is still under warranty, but after reading about Brad's nightmare I'm very hesitant to send the scope back to Meade.  What is truly amazing is that Meade did the same thing to Mike Weasner, of all people.  Unbelievable!  I hope someone from Meade is monitoring this 4M community, because I would love to talk to you about this problem, and about the drive train of the ETX scopes as well.  I look forward to seeing some comments or updates on the LX-90 vibration problem.

Welford

[Ozmeister]

The worst part about all of this (and I have the same problem...worst still I live in Australia), is that for many people who buy these scopes, they can't afford to be paying for repeated shipping costs of faulty telescopes back and forth. Even when they don't have to pay for the shipping, the inconvenience of not having a scope that you've paid a good sum of money for is just frustrating. It's all well and good for Meade to come clean about possible manufacturing inconsistencies and bad QA at their factories (in Mexico and China...they have the same problems), but it's just not good enough when they promise that the scopes are as good as they're supposed to be, which for the most part they are, and then you get something happen like this. Meade should go back to their old way of fixing problems like this and help the owners of the scopes to remedy the situations themselves. even if that means, where the problems are on the PCB, to send out replacement parts and instructions on how to make the necessary repairs. It'd be a darn side cheaper than shipping scopes all over the place and you may guarantee getting your scope up and running, instead of getting dud scopes every time you try and get one replaced.

I'm going to try and fix this problem myself. I only hope that it's not as big a problem as it could be and basically unserviceable by myself.