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Will i notice a difference in the two telescopes?


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#1 osubucki

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Posted 22 March 2007 - 08:29 AM

Im new to the telescope thing but i do know i want and need a better one than i have. I have a 60mm model 60az-a2 by meade. Im looking to get the  Newtonian Reflector 114mm (4.5") Meade 4.5" Telestar Telescope with AutoStar. Will i notice a difference in the two telescopes?

#2 Mark Sibole

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Posted 23 March 2007 - 11:43 AM

You should notice a big difference between to two.
The new scope will give you more light gathering and more power and should give you crisper images.

Regards

Mark
Mark Sibole
MTSO Observatory
Fife Lake, Mi.

http://astronomy.qteaser.com

#3 twmiller123

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Posted 24 March 2007 - 06:57 AM

Yes, you will notice a difference. Objects will be brighter and you will see more detail in fainter regions of galaxies and nebulae. You will also be able to see fainter stars.

                                        Buddy

#4 JimT

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Posted 24 March 2007 - 09:14 AM

To give you an idea of what to expect you will go from a limiting magnitude of about 10.5 to about 12. This equates to seeing stars and deep space objects (DSO’s) that are ~4 times dimmer. In addition the theoretical resolving power will go from about 2 seconds to about 1 second which results in your being able to see finer details in the moon, planets, and DSO’s as well as double stars.

Of course the actual performance is subject to you particular sky conditions but the increase will be apparent.

BTW, you might want to consider 6”.

Best of luck

JimT

#5 donwaid

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Posted 24 March 2007 - 10:39 AM

Hi,

I have an article on my web site that you may find helpful.  It is on my "Articles" page and is titled "What Can I See in a Telescope".

http://www.waid-obse...m/articles.html

HTH,

Don Waid
http:/www.waid-observatory.com

#6 JimT

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Posted 24 March 2007 - 03:21 PM

Don's stuff is all GREAT. By all means, check it out.

JimT

#7 davewa

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Posted 27 March 2007 - 09:43 AM

Another part of the equation is the quality of the mount.  I'm not familiar with the two models you mentioned but having a stable mount means the difference between barely finding an object and being able to actually observe it.

Also, if you get the Autostar to align properly you will often be able to point your telescope at objects that are difficult -- or impossible -- to see in the finder scope.  Getting a dim DSO in the field of that 115mm Newtonian when you can't even see it in the finder scope is when the Autostar pays for itself.

#8 MistrBadgr

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Posted 28 March 2007 - 03:38 PM

I own a DS-2090-AT-TC, a DS-2114ATS-TC, a 114NT (Long tube 114), and a DS-2130-EC.

Comparing the 2090, which being a larger version of your 2080,should have better light gathering power and resolution than your 2080.  I am very pleased with the 2090.  It reminds me of the childhood story of "The Little Engine that Could!"  When I purchased the 114NT, I compared it to the 2090.  In many ways, they were nearly equals.  When looking at Saturn with the 2090 and the 114NT on the same very clear night, the 2090 could just barely show the Cassini division, the 114NT could not.  However, the 114NT could very faintly show a couple of the moons besides Titan.  The 2090 could not pick them up.  The 114NT had a spherical mirror in it at the time.  Since then, I had the mirror parabolized and have done several other things to make the telescope better.  It now does better, but I have not had a really clear night to look for the Cassini division with it.

When I purchased the DS-2114, it was a return scope with the Meade Outlet.  It had troubles with the built-in telextender being glued in place cocked and the spherical main mirror had a focal length of 425 instead of 450.  This made an additional inch of shiny focuser stick out into the light path.  I had the mirror parabolized and did many other things to it.  Now, I think it can faintly pick up some of the smaller moons on Saturn, but I am not sure yet.  I cannot see the Cassini Division with it, but I have not had a good clear night since I got it all back together with all the changes.  One thing the 2114 does do is show more variation in shading than the 2090 or the 114NT.  Don't know why, but the other two show mostly just black and white with little variation,  while the 2114 shows significantly more shade subtlties.

Of the three in their beginning state, the 2090 had the best resolution, the 114NT had the best light gathering power, and (barring the problems with that particular scope) the 2114 had the best shading.

The 2090 and the 114NT had about the same aplitude of "wiggle."  The 2090 could be made to wiggle easier and had a faster frequency in the movement than the 114.  The 114 was slower to start moving, moved slower, but wiggled a little longer.  The 2114 had very little wiggle in comparison.

The way I fixed up the 2114, the eyepiece ended up very near the mounting ring.  In that position, I can sit in a plastic lawn chair and just move around the telescope as needed.  The eyepiece stays pretty much at the same elevation all the time.  It is a restful scope to use and the one I normally pick up when going for a short run to the back yard.  It is my "sit down" telescope.  The 114NT has more resolution and is my "stand up" telescope.  The 2090 is my "kneel down" telescope that hurt my back.  Therefore, I use the 2114 the most, the 114 next, and the 2090 (as much as I like it) the least.

I recently picked up a second hand DS-2130, just to get a spare mount.  Trying out the scope itself along with the 2114, I found a significant difference in light gathering power between the two.  With the additional diameter, it should also have a little better resolution, once I get the bugs worked out of it and get its mirror parabolized.  I would guess the light gathering power difference between the 2114 and the 2130 is about as big a jump as you will see going from a 2080 to a 2114.  On half the nights with the 2114 and the 2130 both in the back yard, I could make out the center of the Andromeda Galaxy with the 2114.  I could make it out on all the nights with the 2130, just more or less of it, depending on the weather.  I live in a light pollution "red zone."

I have tried to split some double stars with the 114NT and the 2114, but not with the 2090, after the two reflectors were parabolized and highly modified.  The 114NT was able to split a a pair that were supposed to be 1.3 arc seconds apart.  It looked like it might be able to do a little better, with the right opportunity, but not much.  The DS-2114 with its parabolized main mirror that is good to at least an eighth of a wave, a secondary mirror that is good to a twentieth of a wave, and using a Meade 140 telextender, was able to split a star pair that were 1.8 arc seconds apart.  It looked like it might be able to do it at maybe 1.6.  It could not split the 1.3 arc second pair that the long tube 114 did.

I enjoy using my 2114 and take it out, barring bad weather or long work hours, two or three times a week.  If you buy one that says Meade on it and not the lesser Telestar (which is what I got), I think you will enjoy it from the start.  Take along a screwdriver for colimation at the start of every viewing cession.  The 2114 is very sensitive to that.  You will definitely see a difference from the 2080 that you have, in my opinion.  You might, however, want to try the DS-2130 short tube scope.  Either scope should be fairly stable and work well for you.

Hope this helps,

Bill Steen

P.S.  It might look like I am giving Meade a black eye with some of what I said.  That was not my intention.  With some of my telescopes, when I told the Meade folks about the troubles, they wanted to replace them immediately.  I chose not to.  I wanted to tinker with them, make them work right, and learn from that experience.  I have had dealings with three different telescope companies.  When it comes to customer support, the Meade folks beat everyone else hands down.  I have purchased another brand once.  I won't any more.

#9 MistrBadgr

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Posted 28 March 2007 - 05:23 PM

Oops! "My bad" on one thing.  I was thinking about your question all day and was figuring out how to make the comparisons I did.  Somehow, I got it in my head that you had a 2080 instead of your 60mm.

Going from your 60mm to a 114mm is really about two big leaps.  A little depends on the particular scope you have now and the one you get.  At this level, they can't do all the big quality control stuff like on the really high dollar telescopes.  If they did, the scopes we are talking about would be really high dollar too.  Because of that, there is a lot more variation from scope to scope.  Most of the differences, you can probably adjust out.

With that said, I think you will really enjoy a DS-2114 if you get one, compared to your 60mm.  Just keep it collimated right (it sounds a little scarey, but you will get the hang of it.), cover the open end when not using it and keep the dust and dirt off your eyepieces.  You can have hours of pleasure.

If you run into trouble, the Meade people are very good to deal with.  If you ask them a question on line, they normally get back with you in a business day, maybe two.  I am confident there will soon be all kinds of people on this board that will be willing to help you out with really good advice.  You may also have an astronomy club in your area with lots of good people there that would be very glad to help you learn.  You may also have a dealer that you buy your telescope from that can be a big help.  That probably depends on the kind of place where you buy it.

The things I said in the last letter are accurate to the best of my ability to make them.  The observations are somewhat subjective.  I have deliberately bought and kept the "leftovers" and have worked to make them better.  That is why some of the things I said might look glum to you.  One of my main goals is to understand what the real observational differences are between the traditional longer focal length telescopes and the newer shorter ones.  I have chosen the 114 mm telescopes to work with.

For the normal person, a DS-2114 will look a lot like a dream come true compared to even a very good 60mm.  I don't think you will go wrong purchasing one.  If you run into problems, give me a shout.  Since I study "forests" by banging my head into "trees," I have probably made the mistake or run into the trouble on the DS-2114.

Best Regards,

Bill Steen




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